Whole bunch vs destemmed bunch: all or nothing!

The dossier in issue 164 of Bourgogne Aujourd'hui is devoted to a very lively debate currently taking place in Burgundy: the winemaking of the pinot noir in destemmed or whole grapes.

The subject may seem a bit technical at first glance, but it is actually quite simple and very concrete when considered in relation to the style of wines produced using the two techniques. Below are some excerpts from the debate between François Labet ( Château of the Tower, at Vougeot And domaine Pierre Labet, at Beaune ), proponent of whole-cluster fermentation and Jean-Nicolas Méo ( Domaine Méo-Camuzet) who swears by destemmed grapes. The feature published in issue 164 of the magazine also includes an in-depth technical article and a report on an exceptional vertical tasting of the Clos -of- Vougeot of both domains.

François Labet, with thirty-five years of experience in the vinification of pinot noir In whole bunch harvesting, have you noticed that the technique works better on certain terroirs, certain vintages…?

A vinification Successful whole-cluster fermentation is undeniably linked to the ripeness of the grapes, and with the perfect ripeness we've been achieving in recent years, I find the addition of the stems very beneficial; the wines gain considerable depth while retaining freshness and without expressing those vegetal notes that sometimes appeared in less ripe vintages. That being said, as a wine lover, I respect everyone's work and I appreciate all well-made wines. This "opposition" between whole-cluster and destemmed grapes cannot be separated from the overall context marked by considerable evolution in the mastery of viticultural and oenological techniques over the last few decades, as well as in consumption habits. Today, food is lighter; young wines are increasingly appreciated, even in rouge and whole bunch fermentation perhaps allows for a faster opening of the wines, especially in recent, very ripe vintages.

What are your thoughts on the current trend of returning to whole-cluster fermentation?

FL : I think we shouldn't imagine that it's possible to flavor a wine by adding 10, 20, or 30% whole clusters! It's all or nothing!

Jean-Nicolas Méo, you have taken over the domaine in 1989. Why did you immediately choose the destemmed grape harvesting route?

My story is (…) that of a domaine which hadn't been worked by its owners for a long time. At the time, I didn't know much about vines and wine, and my father surrounded me with two people who meant a great deal to me: Henri Jayer for winemaking and Christian Faurois for the vineyards. Christian and I initially took over Henri's vines and a few others, including part of the Clos -of- Vougeot As early as 1991, Henri had agreed to train me, and you should know that at the time, he was both admired and envied. Many wanted to know his secret, his "trick" (laughs). As a result, we did a first vinification in a maison The winery was hastily set up; the main cellar was occupied by the sharecroppers, all of whom made their wine here, except for Henri Jayer, who made his own. 1989 was a fine vintage. Henri gave me some instructions, and a few weeks after the barreling, I tasted the wines with him. They were simply good, and at the end of the tasting, he turned to me and said, "You see, it's not so difficult to make great wines." Henri was a gourmand; his pleasure was going to fine restaurants with his winemaking friends, and this was evident in his wines. I immediately connected with this style of wine and his philosophy, which was, "Just because it's good now doesn't mean it won't be good in ten or twenty years. A wine should be good all the time." I simply love the shimmering, caressing, sensual quality of wines made from completely destemmed grapes.

Didn't you ever feel like "killing the father" and trying something else?

JNM : Initially, it was necessary to launch the domaine And there were other things to do than change a style of wine I enjoyed. Then, it took me a long time to understand what a vinification whole-cluster fermentation. The wines I tasted didn't appeal to me; they lacked vibrancy, fruit, and often substance as well. And then, to put my nose to a twenty-year-old wine and immediately think, "Ah, it's whole-cluster fermentation," bothered me that the style of vinification It dominates the terroir just as much. Furthermore, what you said (addressing François Labet) about the oxidation of destemmed grapes surprises me because, from my perspective, many whole-cluster wines often had somewhat dull colors, a sign of premature aging, of oxidation in a way. Nevertheless, I think whole-cluster fermentation has made a lot of progress; as it has become more widespread, it has shed a certain caricature, and today we find many good wines—complex, subtle, dense, balanced—and I understand whole-cluster fermentation better now than I did twenty or twenty-five years ago, when the pleasure of tasting was more spiritual than gustatory (smiles). That being said, it's not to my taste; I respect the purist aspect of the approach, but I don't intend to experiment further.

FL : If whole-cluster wines are today finer, more complete, less marked by the vinification It's thanks to viticultural and winemaking techniques that have completely changed, and to climate change. Take grape sorting, for example! Today, sorting tables are everywhere, but in 1988, they didn't even exist! That year, I went to see an equipment supplier, we bent some sheet metal, drilled holes, put everything on trestles, and we scraped the grapes with a rake, juice dripping all over our feet! What a mess (laughs). We improvised, we looked for ways to improve! Since 1999, almost every vintage has been at least good, and sometimes even magnificent; the run-of-the-mill vintages of the 1960s, 70s, and 80s, with only two or three good vintages per decade, are gone. Northern regions like Burgundy are currently the big "winners" of climate change.

JNM : In 1990, sorting tables already existed, as we were able to purchase one. Equipment manufacturers quickly responded to the demand. The advent of temperature control systems was also essential for winemaking under better conditions; Henri Jayer emphasized this point, saying, "I've noticed that in cool vintages, the wines take longer to start fermenting, resulting in fresher aromas." Temperature control allowed him to replicate this every year.

FL : The same observation was made among those who practice whole-cluster fermentation. These temperature control systems have revolutionized winemaking.

Interview by Christophe Tupinier

Photographs: Thierry Gaudillère

Christophe TUPINIER

Publishing Director