Aubert de Villaine: the guardian of the temple (second part)!

Here is the continuation of the interview with Aubert de Villaine, the co-manager of domaine Romanée- Conti , published in issue 149 of Bourgogne Aujourd'hui "25 years in Burgundy". On the "menu" of this second and final part of the meeting with Mr. de Villaine: biology and biodynamics, "starification" of estates, soaring prices of wines, vineyard land, succession problems, climate change and the style of Burgundy wines.

One of the most significant developments of the last 10-15 years has been the rapid growth of organic and biodynamic viticulture. How do you perceive this major trend?

I believe that organic farming fits perfectly with the Burgundian philosophy. The life of the soil that nourishes the vine is an essential element in the concept of climate and terroir; it is the stage for a constant, delicate, and therefore fragile symbiosis of millions of diverse elements. The molecules of synthetic chemicals can disrupt all of this. Organic options thus seem extremely justified to me, but they should in no way become a religion; organic viticulture should serve to do better, not to assuage our consciences.

Sometimes you hear rather esoteric discussions about biodynamic agriculture. Does that bother you?

We practice it at domaine And in my opinion, it allows, among other things, for what I would call an added finesse of maturity, but it's a biodynamic approach that's anything but doctrinaire. There can be esoteric excesses, it's true, but in Burgundy, you don't find any gurus! All the biodynamic winemakers I know practice it according to the terroir, their observations, and their own philosophy as producers. Are Burgundian winemakers skeptical people? A winemaker is a practical person, someone who works with their hands, who sees the result of their work, so they're wary, and they only believe what they see. Which doesn't prevent us from sometimes being a little blind…

Some Burgundy estates, including yours, have become "stars"? Was this inevitable given the rarity of great Burgundy wines on the scale of global wine consumption?

From the perspective of the society around us, we see this phenomenon of "starification" everywhere: in sports, music, film, restaurants, politics, and so on. The public, the media—everyone demands stars, and wine is no exception, no matter what anyone does. It's simply the way things are these days! As a consequence of this starification, the prices of grand cru and even some premier cru wines have become unaffordable, and billionaires now seem ready to go to any lengths to acquire not only these wines, but the estates themselves.

If we consider that "the soul of Burgundy" remains closely linked to the notion of small domaine Does this concern you regarding family matters?

Yes, the danger, as succession problems worsen, is that very large groups or wealthy individuals will gradually buy up the most famous vineyards, causing family estates to disappear into holdings managed like large corporations. The image of Burgundy is indeed intimately linked to this multitude of family estates, which are the true soul of Burgundy! That said, let's take the example of... Clos of the Lambrays , in Morey-Saint-Denis, bought by the Arnault family from a German family who had themselves bought it from the Saier brothers: none of these previous owners were from Burgundy… If the Arnault family manages the clos not as a subsidiary of a large group with unlimited financial resources, but in a family spirit and integration into the Burgundian model, as has been the case for decades, so there is no reason why it should not work.

So for you, the problem is not the nationality of the shareholder, but rather their state of mind when they arrive in Burgundy?

It's a matter of person and mindset, indeed. It wouldn't be right to make judgments a priori. Let's wait and see what these newcomers do, and perhaps it's also up to us Burgundians to explain to them that they shouldn't arrive here with too voracious an attitude, that they must remain humble, seek to integrate into a magnificent model, an ancient culture, to preserve it and not conquer it. Are you still afraid that in 20 years a significant portion of these family properties will have been sold to French or foreign investors? The pressure is intense in many areas… Some estates have been forced to sell for various reasons, generally related to the passing of the torch from one generation to the next: excessively high inheritance taxes, or the impossibility of buying back shares for those who want to stay because of the property's value, or sometimes simply no one to take over. domaine where professionalism is essential. As for those who, solely to take advantage of current high prices, would sell vineyards inherited from their parents and grandparents who built a domaine The idea of ​​them earning their living through hard work bothers me, and besides, I think they would be making a mistake they would only regret. Ten years after receiving a large sum of money, we've seen so many examples of two out of three people losing half of it… Furthermore, it seems to me that real life is much more than just possessing money!

Let's radically change the subject and turn to climate change, which has been shaping the lives of Burgundians since 2003, with more and more harvests taking place in August. Is this a danger or an opportunity for Burgundy, which in the past has often experienced problems with grape ripening?

In the 1970s, the average harvest date at domaine It was October 5th; today, it's around September 15th. We've gained three weeks, two-thirds "thanks" to global warming and the last third thanks to cultivation methods; this is my purely personal estimate, unsupported by any statistics! Today, the grapes ripen in August, early September, when the days are still hot and long, whereas before they ripened more slowly, in September, in cooler conditions, with less intense sunshine. They simmered longer. I simply hope that global warming won't impose repeated heatwaves every year; if that were the case, we would find ourselves every year in the situation of what was once called a "great vintage," and we would no longer have the diversity of vintages that gives Burgundy its charm and identity. Great "sunny" vintages produce very fine, rich wines that normally age well, but powerfully, with aromas that are more meaty than floral. They evolve very differently from those less ripe vintages that I like and that so many Burgundy lovers like, which, with time, develop, thanks among other things to their acidity, a great elegance and more fragile, but also more subtle aromas, which I often personally liken to the delicate scent of a faded rose petal.

For you, a great Burgundy vintage of pinot noir So, it wasn't 1947 and 1959, very hot years, but rather less "perfect" years?

The two vintages from the last century that impressed me most don't have a huge reputation: 1953 and 1962. They are ripe vintages, without excess, and they retained a great deal of freshness and precision. One might wonder if 2017, which was less ripe, more "normal" than 2015 and 2018, won't be more interesting with age? In recent years, 2016 worried us because of the spring frost, but the wines are ultimately as concentrated as 2015 and 2018, but purer, more precise; I think it will gradually establish itself in rouge like the exceptional vintage of recent years.

Is your vision the same in chardonnay ?

In blanc One must be careful not to become too "tense" while trying to avoid heaviness. Burgundy did not build its reputation on chardonnay The aim is to produce crisp white wines, but also wines with freshness, of course, but also opulence and richness. It's not simple, especially with the new climate, but a balance must be found at harvest time between optimal ripeness and acidity, in order to continue making rich and balanced wines.

The last 25 years have also been marked by a meteoric rise in the quality of appellations, such as Marsannay , Saint-Aubin Monthelie, Pouilly-Fuissé … or even entire regions like the Coast Chalonnaise , where you also own a domaine Since 1973. Did that surprise you?

Regarding the Coast Chalonnaise Where I hold a special place in my heart, having lived and made wine there for nearly 50 years, it's fair to say that it has been swept up in the same positive momentum as the Côte-d'Or, with which it is geographically inextricably linked; there has therefore been a kind of logical, almost mechanical progression… but it's possible to do even better. The winemakers know this well. Many productive vines were planted in the 1960s and 70s; many have been uprooted and replanted, but there's still work to be done! I also confess that it bothers me to see vines harvested by machine. When you want to make a wine that expresses the true character of a terroir, the human touch is essential, and sorting at harvest time is the last manual step where you can have a decisive impact on the quality of the grapes brought to the winery. Even when well-designed, a machine cannot perform work equivalent to that of a human, at least for the time being, until the era of intelligent robots (whose intelligence can only be questioned…). For these sectors, which were little known to the public in the 1960s, except of course Pouilly-Fuissé This qualitative improvement has gone hand in hand with growing renown. Quality creates the market and vice versa. It's a virtuous cycle. And then, we see vineyards like Pouilly-Fuissé who will have their best slopes recognized as Premier Crus. The current trend, I think, is towards gradually giving an identity to more and more vineyard sites, including within regional appellations. In Burgundy Côte Chalonnaise as in the short story appellation In Burgundy's Côte-d'Or, there are many distinct climates, as well as distinct appellations. villages or first growths.

What do you want for Burgundy?

Simply that she is determined to preserve and pass on what she has received…

Reference points 

Some important dates in the life of Aubert de Villaine

1965: My arrival at Domaine Romanée- Conti .

1973: Acquisition of domaine of Bouzeron , in Côte Chalonnaise .

1976: Arrival of the first sorting table at Domaine .

1977: The INAO recognizes the AOC Burgundy Aligoté Bouzeron .

1985: Biology at Domaine Romanée Conti and to Bouzeron .

1990: the INAO recognizes the AOC Burgundy Coast Chalonnaise .

1995: Start of work with horses on 6 hectares of Domaine including Romanée- Conti and Montrachet.

1995: Creation of GEST (Group for the study and monitoring of terroirs) by a group of winegrowers.

1997: The INAO recognizes the appellation - village Bouzeron made from 100% of the grape variety aligoté .

2006: Biodynamics at Domaine Romanée- Conti .

2006: Creation of the Association for the Safeguarding of the Diversity of Grape Varieties of Burgundy.

2006: Creation of the association for the inscription of the Climats of the Burgundy vineyard on the World Heritage list and decision to submit the application to UNESCO.

2015: On July 4 in Bonn, the Climats of the Burgundy vineyards were inscribed on the UNESCO World Heritage list.

Christophe TUPINIER

Publishing Director